What class is my truck

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Horsehammerr
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What class is my truck

Post by Horsehammerr » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:02 pm

I'm not sure of my class. I'm driving an '02 S-10 Crew cab. I've turned the front end down 3" with the stock Torsion Bars , the rear is dropped with 3" blocks, set back plates and eight degree pinion angle correction . I have changed to 8.5 x 16 aluminum wheels with 1/4" spacers on front to clear tie rod ends. The rear wheels are mounted on 2 1/2" thick adapter spacers to set them even with outside fenders same as front. I'm running 245/50/16 Nexen CP641 tires all around. Stock length heavy duty Bilstein shocks. Factory optional rear sway bar and stock front sway bar with poly urethane bushing in both sway bars. The only thing done to the motor is a K&N air filter. I choose # 888 and need to know what letters I need.
"02 S-10 Crew Cab " Down & Quick " 888 FSP

flogger
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Post by flogger » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:26 pm

Wow. I had to look that one up. I thought it was going to be ESP, but I was surprised to find there's a line for S-10 (1994-2004) under FSP. I'm not positive about the class legality of your set back plates and pinion angle correction (shims, I assume). Everything else that you've listed is OK, just please make sure your wheel spacers and adapters are safe and have plenty of engaged threads. Thanks.

As for determining the legality of your drivetrain sparing set back plates and pinion angle mods, I'm going to steer you to the SCCA rulebook. It's available in pdf form online from SCCA.org at no charge. The Street Prepared rules start on page 91. In reality, a 4x4 truck on all season tires is not exactly a class killer, and if I were running in FSP with you there's no way I'd protest what you've got, regardless of what you uncover in the rulebook. I can't imagine anybody else would have a problem with it at a Regional event either. Frankly, I suspect that stuff is legal anyway, and that being a predominantly FWD guy I'm just not familiar with it.

I say register in FSP and don't sweat it any further. Come out Sunday, be safe, learn a few things and have fun. See ya there.
Scott Woosley

Horsehammerr
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Post by Horsehammerr » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:43 am

Thanks for the response "flogger". This is actually my first discussion with an SCCA member. After researching as much as I could understand in the rules I pretty much came up with the same conclusion as you. I've decided to just go for 888 FSPN for my ID and see what happens. I've always enjoyed fast control mods. done to all my daily drivers and kept my practice to private times on challenging roads down here in the Table Rock Lake area of the Ozarks. There are some very HAIRY bends in these wagon trails down here. I'm only hoping I have some idea how to handle an Autocross Trail. Mine is an automatic and I'm trying to figure out the best shift pattern so I'm not shifting up to soon. I have a Power Programmer III by Hypertech that I can change shift patterns with and I'm just not sure where to go with it. Any help from anyone is welcome. Again Thanks, Chuck
"02 S-10 Crew Cab " Down & Quick " 888 FSP

Horsehammerr
Posts: 12
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Location: Kimberling City,Mo.

What class is my truck

Post by Horsehammerr » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:45 am

Thanks for the response "flogger". This is actually my first discussion with an SCCA member. After researching as much as I could understand in the rules I pretty much came up with the same conclusion as you. I've decided to just go for 888 FSPN for my ID and see what happens. I've always enjoyed fast control mods. done to all my daily drivers and kept my practice to private times on challenging roads down here in the Table Rock Lake area of the Ozarks. There are some very HAIRY bends in these wagon trails down here. I'm only hoping I have some idea how to handle an Autocross Trail. Mine is an automatic and I'm trying to figure out the best shift pattern so I'm not shifting up to soon. I have a Power Programmer III by Hypertech that I can change shift patterns with and I'm just not sure where to go with it. Any help from anyone is welcome. Again Thanks, Chuck
"02 S-10 Crew Cab " Down & Quick " 888 FSP

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SilverYota
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Post by SilverYota » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Horsehammer, welcome and I apologize for not answering the email from early this week, lets just say I have been more than busy and haven't even turned on the laptop this week.

Anyhow I feel the forum is a better place to discuss this since many people will give input. You will be 888 FSP (road tire modifiers are only for stock classes and we don't have a Novice PAX class). I saw the same thing in the rulebook about S10's being in that class, but want to ask our safety stewards, is it okay that it's a 4x4?
Matt Longpine
'88 MR2

Bullitt2954
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Post by Bullitt2954 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:14 am

At stock height - 4x4 = NoGo. :shock:

3" less via lowering tricks? - I dunno, we can stick a tape on it and do the calcs, see if it falls within the allowable ratio. IIRC there is a procedure in the rulebook for determining rollover probability. Ratio on one side of the line = it's likely good. The other = Thank You for your interest, please return with a more-suitable vehicle. :wink:

If NOT, surely we can find someone he can share a ride with, yes?

It is the height/track ratio that makes tall, tipsy vehicles (such as a 4x4) not eligible to run. Modify that, what's the difference between a lowered S-10 4x4 with a ratio of 1.24 and an STI with a ratio of 1.25? (not sayin' either number is valid for either vehicle, just pulled them out of my arse playin' Devil's Advocate here :twisted: ).



Horsehammerr:

Of course, IF permission is granted to run PROVISIONALLY, we WILL observe your runs closely for evidence of tipover. If any such is noted, we will have no choice but to disallow any future runs.

Please note: driving quickly on backroads (or even at the track) is NOT the same as Autocross - speeds are slower, but transitions (such as in a slalom or lanechange maneuver) can result in a much-higher peak or "instantaneous" G-force. Vehicles that "seem stable" in a sustained corner, suddenly are T-U with rapid Right-Left-Right-Left steering-inputs.

Bring the vehicle, let us Tech it, look it over, take a few measurements, and a couple of Safety Stewards will discuss and give you a determination. If the answer is "no", it is nothing personal - incidents reflect badly on our sport, and our Insurance. We love the sport, and want to do anything we can to keep it going, and keep insurance costs as low as possible. "Weeding out" higher-risk vehicles is one of the ways we do so.
-Scott Creech, #54STF - Hyundai Veloster "The BluMeanie!"

Parfois, on fait pas semblant

"The key to happiness is; If you cannot learn to do something well; learn to enjoy doing it poorly..."

Horsehammerr
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Post by Horsehammerr » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:23 am

In my attempt to get it right, I set all as close to S-10 Syclone measurements as possible for a four door that can be done. They don't even have rear sway bars. This option really tightened up the cornering. I'm mostly interested in Auto X because it is a controlled event where I can do my thing and not worry about laws. I will abide by SCCA ruling and make needed modifications. I'm hoping that since Syclones that are the same 4x4 platform, can run, then I can make mine acceptable as well. SEE YOU THERE!
"02 S-10 Crew Cab " Down & Quick " 888 FSP

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JimR
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Post by JimR » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:17 am

We'll have a look, but my blind guess is that the truck will do fine based on the lowered ride height, increased track width, and street tires. I'm guessing that tire size is smaller than the OE diameter, which also contributes to the lower center of gravity. The crew cab also adds a little wheelbase and length, increasing the polar moment and decreasing (slightly) the tendancy to pivot and bicycle.
Jim Rowland - Your friendly OMR volunteer at large
'92 Sentra SE-R / '15 FR-S / '04 Silverado HD

Unstable
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Post by Unstable » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:28 am

Keep in mind the Typhoons and Syclones are based on the Astrovan AWD drivetrain not the S10 4WD that is not higher than a traditional 2wd chassis. These trucks also have beefed up stability from the factory and should do quite well on the course.
Crazy Eddie Hall :: '92 Civic HB red (Pepe' - my lil' mule) :: XP #97 & PF #97:: Team Krazo Racing

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SilverYota
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Post by SilverYota » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:48 pm

Unstable wrote:Keep in mind the Typhoons and Syclones are based on the Astrovan AWD drivetrain not the S10 4WD that is not higher than a traditional 2wd chassis. These trucks also have beefed up stability from the factory and should do quite well on the course.
Eddie is right, you will want to leave it in 2wd to do this. Without a center differential that truck would buck and pop in 4HI on dry pavement, and more than likely break something.
Matt Longpine
'88 MR2

Horsehammerr
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Post by Horsehammerr » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:40 pm

SilverYota wrote:
Unstable wrote:Keep in mind the Typhoons and Syclones are based on the Astrovan AWD drivetrain not the S10 4WD that is not higher than a traditional 2wd chassis. These trucks also have beefed up stability from the factory and should do quite well on the course.
Eddie is right, you will want to leave it in 2wd to do this. Without a center differential that truck would buck and pop in 4HI on dry pavement, and more than likely break something.
Other than ride height and wheel base the main difference in SY/Ty's and 4x4's is the transfer case and front differential.Read all about it on SyTy/SGT.com. Not to say the Turbo power engine isn't different but, whats a mere 100+ horsepower. :lol: I will not turn on my 4x for anything but needed extra traction, snow, mud , ice, you know when really needed.
"02 S-10 Crew Cab " Down & Quick " 888 FSP

stanbell
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Post by stanbell » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:37 pm

Mr Hammer, i thoroughly enjoyed your participation, thanks for coming along. hope you'll come back.
66 mustang, 72 124 fiat FProduction, 91 miata ES/STS, 95 mustang SM, 97 F150, 99 Neon SF (yes!), 00 911 C4 AS, 05 CLK500, 05 triumph speed four, 06 F250, 07 ducati 1098, 13 330i, & a few cows. 93 miata ES now in Mr France's capable hands, long may she autox.

stanbell
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Post by stanbell » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:40 pm

i feel like we're one up on NeOkla, cause their truck guy is only ESP, where you were FSP. Yup.
66 mustang, 72 124 fiat FProduction, 91 miata ES/STS, 95 mustang SM, 97 F150, 99 Neon SF (yes!), 00 911 C4 AS, 05 CLK500, 05 triumph speed four, 06 F250, 07 ducati 1098, 13 330i, & a few cows. 93 miata ES now in Mr France's capable hands, long may she autox.

Horsehammerr
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Post by Horsehammerr » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:47 am

Well, Mr. stanbell, I very much appreciate your welcome. This was my first Auto X ever and I had a BLAST ! I'm not sure which car you drove :? please refresh my memory. However' I had nothing but a great time and enjoyed the excitement and friendship of all who participated. I'm already thinking of further mods. to my FSP. I'm thinking a stiffer front suspension, maybe coilovers and a ZQ8 steering box for shorter throw steering.Seems my front end dives to much and causes some lost traction. Also having to move my hands on the steering wheel in corners is a little time robbing. May be a while on these next improvements but I will see you there on the #6 event 9/8/13. " Happy Fast Turns " !! Chuck ( Horsehammerr 888 FSP ) 8)
"02 S-10 Crew Cab " Down & Quick " 888 FSP

Bullitt2954
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Post by Bullitt2954 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:59 pm

stanbell wrote:i feel like we're one up on NeOkla, cause their truck guy is only ESP, where you were FSP. Yup.
And he's "Defected" to the siren song of a '13 Mustang GT Brembo package car (though he still has BOTH of his Dakotas).

Sorry we could not make this one - my Father-In-law was being released from U-Med in Baltimore, and we had to go fetch him. He had been in there 18 days, and had 6 operations due to a MRSA infection that put him in the ER while he was on the road (he's a truck driver).

It was an interesting.... erm.... "experience" bringing him home. We got in about 2:00 this morning. Went to a Delaware impound lot to empty his truck and then I had to rig the van up nearly like a mobile hospital-bed, and did nearly all the driving.

Jeanie is not nearly as ah, "agressive" of a driver as I am, and each direction was 16-17 hrs windshield time. If you maintain a 75 average. Which is one heckuva lot harder than you might think with probably ~400 miles of construction scattered-throughout the ~1200 mile one-way. Sans Detector....





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